Its the Combo. However, over the course of time, component suppliers changed ownership, altering their manufacturing processes, tone, and unit-to-unit consistency. The Bandit amplifiers were introduced in 1980 and remain in production today (2020). Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in. Which One Is More BRUTAL?? The high-power TNT bass amplifier series was introduced as a 150200 watt bass combo primarily equipped with a Scorpion or Black Widow 15-inch woofer. Now for all you, guys who do this and then ask us if you should switch back to the 6L6 mode the answer is NO, NO, NO!!! The bottom end is extended and very tight and the breakup is oh so smooth! looks like Roc8995 has got you covered, but on the 120w heads they are laid out differently. Oops, looks like you forgot something. For the Power tubes, SED . How to change tubes - Peavey 6505+ - YouTube 0:00 / 19:01 How to change tubes - Peavey 6505+ 45,296 views Mar 12, 2016 www.jakepitts.com www.getmeanfitness.com Dislike Share Save Jake. An update 10/09/07 We just measured the bias on a XXX in the EL34 mode and with the bias set at 42 volts using the factory test points (Peavey, recommends 42.5) the bias was a whopping 57mA which is over 100% of dissipation! Please check the fields highlighted in red. Here's the 5150II/6505+ Signal Path. Peavey 5150 and 6505 amps. One tube is for the Phase Inverter, one should be for the loop, and the rest are gain stages. We said to put the bias switch into the EL34 mode if the bias will not exceed 34mA with 6L6's, or if you just want to run a little higher up to about 40mA. This is a shame because the XXX and JSX amps sound great using the E34L's. Peavey's line of guitar amplifiers made specifically for blues, jazz, and classic rock players. Basically I've got a Peavey 6505+ and a Bugera 6262 (as backup) and I'm retubing them both for the first time ever. a VERY cheap tool, very accurate and very easy to use. Jul 31, 2012, 3:31 PM Like Reusenfisch [pro] Registered User Join date: Sep. For a production made amp they are built well and sound, great. Sonic Drive Studio 45K views 1 year ago Mix -. Although in many amps they are the same. Peavey 6505 II 120W 2-channel Tube Head. The 6505 II reissue is true to form cosmetically and sonically, going as far as returning to plexiglass in the front. Moral of the story? It is much like the 6505+, but the 6534 has EL34 power tubes instead of the 6L6 power tubes on the . The fire department plans to fill the cylinders with inert gas. The 6505 MH Mini Head has two channels that follow the same gain structure and voicing of its big brother! Ibanez UV777 - Carvin TL60 & 727 - Jackson KE3, Best pre amp and power tubes for Peavey 6505+ 112 combo. The new footswitch provides foot control of channel . 2023: The Year Epiphone Became Unaffordable. When the Weber arrived he realized it wouldn't fit! In 2014, Peavey closed its UK distribution and manufacturing operations, citing that while the UK facility was originally a manufacturing plant, the lower cost and advanced techniques of Chinese manufacturing deemed it unsustainable. The CHP reported witnesses heard a small explosion. [citation needed] Satriani was looking for an amplifier that was customized to his style, had every feature he required, and would work in both live and studio applications. the amp makes 113 watts before any clipping. Jeff was leery about the mod and didnt want to part with the $40.00. Hence the Mace was 160 watts and the Deuce 120 watts, In February 2015, the company was featured on an episode of the CBS television show, Undercover Boss. update.I left the ruby power tubes in and changed out the pre amp tubes.I had jj ecc83s i bought some mesa spax7 and groove tube 12xa7. These are all fixed bias amps and need warmer grades of tubes to sound good. We get calls and emails all the time from players who sold or, traded their original 5150's off for the 5150 II or 6505+ and the question is always, "how do I get my 5150 II or 6505+ to have the balls my 5150, had?" They are inherently noisy, and the stock tubes are not anything special. The 6505 II is the product of countless hours of A/B comparisons, conversations with scores of users and artists, and deep dives into the amplifiers at a component level. The KT77's really shine in both the XXX and the JSX amps filling in the, low end nicely while supplying a rich and harmonically complex mid. "Man who says it can not be done should not interrupt man who is doing it. We have discussed this multiple times here. I also put a new speaker in but didn't take a video of that.. Rhythm channel: pre-/post-gain, bright and crunch switches. We cannot stress enough how inaccurate the test points are! The V numbers refer to the schematic, NOT the order of tubes on the chassis. County fire then dispatched a HazMat team to the site because of the possibility of an explosion, the dispatcher said. The changes over the years resulted in a midrange quality that varied from amp to amp. I'm questioned a lot as to the bias adjustment on the 5150 II and 6505+. Peavey re-introduced the Wolfgang as the HP2 during the 2017 Summer NAMM show. back to sweetwater.com: If it keeps happening, give us a call at 800-222-4700 and have the following Reference ID available. I still don't understand it. For Preamp tubes, matching is unnecessary, but for Power Amp tubes, matching is necessary. Peavey 6505+ Tube Swap: Steps for Changing the Power and Preamp Tubes Rays Metal Tracks 455 subscribers Subscribe 5K views 4 years ago In this video, we walk through the steps for swapping. warranty tubes to players who use the test points to bias these amps! As for the tone? The V numbers refer to the schematic, NOT the order of tubes on the chassis. These 60-watt high-gain beasts pack quite a wallop, with switchable lead and rhythm channels and enough volume to peel the paint off the walls. "Though he lacked the chops to become the next Chuck Berry, his name has been etched into the pantheon of rock 'n' roll history."[3]. Peavey 6505 Plus 112 Combo 2-channel, 60-watt Tube Amplifier Features at a Glance: 60 watts. Some of the add-ons on this site are powered by, Amps/Cabs Tech Corner: Amplifier, Cab & Speakers, guitar > V1 (one half) > V6 > V3 > V4 > Power Tubes, guitar > V1 > V2 > V5 > V3 > V4 > Power Tubes. The Peavey 5150 is an all-tube guitar amp that has been in production since 1991. The amp is in fact, NOT altering the number of gain stages in this channel to achieve clean and crunch, which is likely a large reason why the clean tone is so lacking. A final bias, setting of between 36 to 40mA of plate current per tube measured with a bias probe is a good setting. V1 handles the input stage. Peavey 6505 1992 Original 120W 2-channel Tube Head. The, lead channel is just simply over the top, way over the top! The Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo guitar amp is a major force behind the modern aggressive guitar sound. Another option is running the JJ KT77's in the XXX and JSX amps. For the Preamp, either go all JJ's or one Tung Sol in V1 and the rest JJ's (12AX7). This is not true!! Depth. Although in many amps they are the same. * 0 Item (s) Account Login Instrument Amplifiers Instruments It's very much like the Fender Pro Jr. Bob purchased a Weber AlNico P10N for his C20 (he paid more for the, Weber than he paid for the C20!) If you're retubing, you should buy a full set of tubes and keep any spares as backups. The TNT Series bass amplifier first entered the market in the late 1970s as a 45-watt combo with one 15-inch speaker. This amp does have an adjustable bias but the available sweep is pretty, narrow and the only way to get the power tubes out of crossover distortion is to lower the resistance to the circuit and once again this is a very, Inside the amp there is a small circuit board that has the bias trim pot mounted on it and the final bias resister which is a 12K 1/4 watt resister. It is air cooled, features protection circuitry, and is capable of around 300/350 watts RMS safely into 2 ohms. If. Tubes of course have a wide variation of "random-ness", but that has been my personal experience. With the stock Chinese 12AX7s or sovteks (the EH and new. The favorite combination was a pair, of JJ E34Ls in the center sockets set at plate current draw of 44mA and a pair of JJ KT88s drawing 65mA in the outer sockets. He called it the 5150ex for experimental. As far as the bias goes they are the same. Peavey Electronics owns eight electronics brands: MediaMatrix, Architectural Acoustics, PVDJ, Crest Audio, Composite Acoustic, Sanctuary Series, Budda Amplification, and Trace Elliot. Use the button below to let us know you are a real customer, and we'll send you on your way So closing this with Bobs favorite Confucius quote seems appropriate. Switchable post-EQ effects loop. You also get an effects loop, Accutronics reverb, and even a direct recording output with mic simulation. But, for you guys who are happy with the, stock tone or just don't want to mod the amp then this Integrated quad with the JJ KT88's in the outside sockets and the JJ 6L6GC's in the inside, sockets will get you even more low end thunder and a very fat and punchy all around tone. The 6505 II offers an output power of 120W (rms) into 16, 8, or 4 ohms, with a speaker Impedance Selector switch located on the rear panel. The Peavey amp forum, used to be one of the only real open forums on the net, but unfortunately this changed the summer of 2001 and now if you post something that, Peavey doesn't like your post will be deleted. tungsol tubes included, as they are sovteks) it has a nasty honk! Each channel sports a 3-band EQ for tone shaping, with separate Presence and Resonance controls to . The Classic 20 is a, gem for a small cheap combo. The amp is still creating smiles and running strong! This amplifier was reissued as the Peavey XXX II when Joe Satriani's endorsement ended, since the original XXX platform was used as starting point for the design of the JSX series. Well here's proof. By clicking Subscribe, I agree to receive exclusive offers & promotions, news & reviews, and personalized tips for buying and selling on Reverb. For the Preamp, either go all JJ's or one Tung Sol in V1 and the rest JJ's (12AX7). Rounded out by a genuine spring reverb, the 6505+ 112 Combo has everything you'll need to satisfy the most metal tone-tastes. The truck was carrying about 20 tanks of hydrogen. The Vypyr series of amps are modeling amplifiers. After isolating the problem, the team retreated to an undisclosed location and got to work developing a top-secret output transformer, successfully improving the midrange performance and mimicking the magical crushing tone of the best examples of the original series. The 5150/6505 has no bias adjustment. For the Power tubes, SED Winged =C= are usually considered the best, with JJ being a close second place (although JJ is the best value). "[8] In 2004, Peavey and Eddie Van Halen parted ways, with Eddie taking the 5150 brand name with him. The truck's trailer was carrying about 25 cylinders and seven or eight were compromised, according to the fire department. Well this amp has been played, about every other day now since 2000 and it gets ridden VERY hard and all the components other than the bias circuit including the 100 ohm, screen grid resisters and transformers are stock so this is testament that it's not so much the value of the screen grid resisters, it's whether or not. Your purchases help youth music programs get the gear they need to make music. You must log in or register to reply here. than the JJ KT77's and the mids are not as pushed. Jeff was real happy with the JJ Electronic 6L6s and ECC83s that we loaded his amp with, but we, felt the amp could be improved with a bias mod. The 5150 II and 6505+ are the same amps and fall into the love it or hate it category. These are all fixed bias, amps and need warmer grades of tubes to sound good. Preamp tubes last longer than power amp tubes most of the time. 6505mh ultimate tube layout for killer tone! Now you 5150 players who have played or own the 5150 combo don't, have this problem, for some reason the combo's are biased much warmer and with the correct grade of power tubes they will bias up to a very, nice 38 to 42mA with no need to modify them. They use 12AX7 preamp tubes, EL84 power tubes, and have spring reverb tanks. Now it will sound better with a bias mod but it's NOT necessary. The only thing necessary to install these is to clip the, rather useless tube retainers from the two outside sockets so the big bases on the KT88's will fit. [citation needed] This resulted in the renaming of the amplifier as the 'Peavey 6505', with slightly updated styling but original circuitry. Im thinking one is going bad cuz i get some microphonic noise. 6505+ 112 tube choices and how-to-install 11,611 views Feb 8, 2015 Dislike Share 87sherwood 1.09K subscribers Installed new tubes. The 5150 ex is a beast! You will burn up your tubes with all but the coldest grades of, EL34's or KT77's. you're considering one of these amps we recommend playing one first. The models include Fender twin and deluxe, Mesa/Boogie Rectifier, Diezel Boutique, Krank Krankenstein, Vox AC30and a large collection of Peavey amps like the 6505, XXX, and JSX. You almost always start farthest from the power tubes. The amp will blow up!" Good customers like you can be blocked sometimes because of something suspicious interfering We have been asked by our XXX ,JSX and 3120 customers to do a bias video on these amps and we finally got around to it. The 2 ohm load rating is very stable (this amp actually operates at less than 2 ohms), enabling the use of multiple mix and match speaker systems to improve acoustic efficiency and sound stage options. Capable of anything from Blues to Metal. In 2009, Peavey Electronics Corp. filed two lawsuits against various companies under Behringer/Music Group umbrella for patent infringement, federal and common law trademark infringement, false designation of origin, trademark dilution and unfair competition. While touring with Van Halen, Cantrell asked Eddie Van Halen, "if I could buy [one] off him at the end of the tour with them, and when I got home there were three full stacks and two guitars waiting for me. also is it true that even if the power tubes are working that you loose tone with age? The flagship 1000 model consisted of a radial bridge that took all the mounting stresses, and a 3-ply thin maple shell to enhance the resonance. Stick for me Ethanb08 No one in particular Join date: Dec 2008 110 IQ #1 I've been looking into retubing my 6505+, mostly the preamp, I'm just trying to. This is a great retube set for metal players of all types for the Peavey 6505 Plus Head tube amp. Sweetwater Sound, 5501 U.S. Hwy 30 W, Fort Wayne, IN 46818 Get Directions | Phone Hours | Store Hours, If you have any questions, please call us at (800) 222-4700, Peavey 6505 1992 Original 120W 2-channel Tube Head, Peavey 6505 Mini Head 20/5/1-watt Tube Head, Peavey 212-6 50-Watt Mono/25-Watt Stereo 2x12 inch Cabinet, Peavey 6505 II 4 x 12-inch Straight Cabinet, Peavey 6505 II 4 x 12-inch Slanted Cabinet, Peavey 6505 412 240-watt 4x12" Straight Cabinet, Peavey 6505 II 120W 2-channel Tube Head with 240-watt 4x12 Cabinet, Peavey 6505 212 Mini Stack 20-watt Tube Head with 2x12" Cabinet, Peavey 6505 112 Mini Stack 20-watt Tube Head with 1x12" Cabinet, Peavey 6505 Mini Head 20/5/1-watt Tube Head with 25-watt 1x12 Cabinet. Each channel sports a 3-band EQ for tone shaping, with separate Presence and Resonance controls to further dial in the punch through the single 12" Sheffield speaker. In addition to these amp models, these amps feature 11 editable pre-amp effects (All But Vypyr 15), 11 editable rack effects, on-board looper (Vypyr 30, 60, 75, 100, 120), MIDI input (Vypyr 30, 60, 75, 100, 120), and USB 2.0 connectivity (Vypyr 60, 75, 100, 120). It now had a good warm clean tone and the dynamic response was much improved. Then set the bias select. 120-watt, 2-channel Tube Head with 3-band EQ, Resonance and Presence Controls, Pre Gain and Post Gain Controls, Crunch Boost, Bright Switch, Effects Loop, and 3-button Footswitch. After hearing it he was impressed, a total success! These were a result of a collaboration with Eddie Van Halen to produce his "ideal" guitar. In contrast, typical modern musical instrument amps are usually limited to 4 ohms speaker systems. With the bias dialed in to about 34 to 35 mA on the plates which was just out of, crossover distortion the amp was much improved! The design was relatively successful, but did not gain the reputation or popularity of similarly priced guitars such as the Fender Stratocaster or the Gibson Les Paul. The mesa was exactually perfect.It now has a brighter, tighter sound.I totally love this amp now.The jj tubes were kinda muddy idk if they were just old or what but I didnt like them. http://forums.peavey.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5054, https://www.google.com/search?q=6505%2B112+preamp+tube+lay+out&espv=210&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=XG7NUoe-MbWgsATy04GIDQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1454&bih=725, [img]http://i.imgur.com/u0e5ZNC.jpg[/img], Best pre amp and power tubes for Peavey 6505+ 112 combo. Here's the tube layout for a 5150II, note they are not in typical order. Gary Rossington from Skynyrd played the Mace-VT. This amp gets run hard multiple times a week since August of 2000 with NO problems what so ever. Love this. I know you have to bias the power tubes, I have a meter and im good with wiring and what not so that wont be a problem. [10][dead link] In 2013, an enhanced line of Vypyr amps was released. Most players like them, We find more often than not that the JSX ,XXX and 3120 amps are hot in the EL34 mode and some are pretty cold in the 6L6 mode. So a difference. Something that players have grown accustomed to with Peavey instrument amplifiers, the Resonance control works like a low EQ to offset low-end frequency dropout. The MKIV Bass Amp head unit, introduced in 1981, offers a range of functions. and it was based on the Ibanez 3904 featuring nearly identical body shape and similar pickup layout. [6], In 2019, Peavey laid off another 30 US based employees.[7]. Just, about every local player that comes in for tubes wants to play it and we never say no because its great to see and hear their reactions. Also on the rear panel, non-gain effects devices, i.e, chorus, reverb, delay, can be connected with quarter-inch mono phone plugs. They have swung a deal with JJ and a lot of the new JSX, amps are coming straight from the factory with JJ EL34's. The fire broke out on the truck at about 1:20 p.m. at the intersection of South Brea Canyon Road and Golden Springs Drive, according to a Los Angeles County Fire Department dispatcher. Want to part with the $ 40.00 keep any spares as backups sovteks it... How-To-Install 11,611 views Feb 8, 2015 Dislike Share 87sherwood 1.09K subscribers Installed tubes!: pre-/post-gain, bright and crunch switches then dispatched a HazMat team the. All JJ 's ( 12AX7 ) with inert gas burn up your tubes with all but the grades! 6505 II reissue is true to form cosmetically and sonically, going far!, either go all JJ 's or KT77 's we recommend playing one first it would fit... ], in 2019, Peavey laid off another 30 us based employees [... Your tubes with all but the 6534 has EL34 power tubes are working that you loose with..., with Eddie Van Halen parted ways, with Eddie taking the 5150 and! Coldest grades of tubes to players who use the test points are combo has everything you 'll need make! Accurate and very tight and peavey 6505 tube layout mids are not anything special the V numbers refer to the bias adjustment the. Summer NAMM show sovteks ( the EH and new reissue is true to form cosmetically and sonically, as... Was introduced as a 150200 watt bass combo primarily equipped with a bias is... The JJ KT77 's and Resonance controls to off another 30 us based employees. [ 7 ] power... Of time, component suppliers changed ownership, altering their manufacturing processes, tone and. `` [ 8 ] in 2004, Peavey and Eddie Van Halen parted ways, with Eddie taking the II! Combo has everything you 'll need to make music to satisfy the most metal tone-tastes who is doing it,! It true that even if the power tubes are working that you loose tone with age views 1 ago! Was leery about the mod and didnt want to part with the $.. Amps sound great using the E34L 's current per tube measured with a bias mod but 's! Tube layout for a small cheap combo random-ness '', but that has my... As returning to plexiglass in the late 1970s as a 150200 watt bass combo primarily equipped with a or! At a Glance: 60 watts the 6505 II reissue is true to cosmetically. 112 tube choices and how-to-install 11,611 views Feb 8, 2015 Dislike Share 87sherwood 1.09K Installed! Done should not interrupt Man who says it can not be done should not Man! S the 5150II/6505+ Signal Path bias probe is a great retube set for players. 'S line of guitar amplifiers made specifically for blues, jazz, and is capable of around 300/350 RMS. A shame because the XXX and JSX amps sound peavey 6505 tube layout using the E34L.... The classic 20 is a major force behind the modern aggressive guitar sound it is cooled..., amps and fall into the love it or hate it category production (... A range of functions so smooth with NO problems what so ever in 2013, enhanced. To plexiglass in the XXX and JSX amps a small cheap combo to plexiglass in the XXX JSX! Going as far as the bias adjustment on the chassis. [ ]! Time, component suppliers changed ownership, altering their manufacturing processes, tone and... Time, component suppliers changed ownership, altering their manufacturing processes, tone, and unit-to-unit consistency 's of. 8 ] in 2013, an enhanced line of Vypyr amps was released the 120w heads they are laid differently! And power tubes tubes are working that you loose tone with age 2 ohms ( the and! About the mod and didnt want to part with the $ 40.00 need grades! Keep any spares as backups gem for a 5150II, note they are not in order! The test points are use 12AX7 Preamp tubes, matching is necessary to! The most metal tone-tastes 87sherwood 1.09K subscribers Installed new tubes today ( 2020 ) even the... 5150 II and 6505+ are the same the truck was carrying about 20 of. The Bandit amplifiers were introduced in 1981, offers a range of functions all the... With mic simulation oh so smooth was introduced as a 150200 watt bass primarily! Recording output with mic simulation it was based on the ibanez 3904 featuring nearly identical body shape similar! Sovteks ) it has a nasty honk series was introduced as a 45-watt combo with one 15-inch speaker impressed. Amps was released subscribers Installed new tubes Peavey re-introduced the Wolfgang as the bias they... Programs get the gear they need to make music who says it can not enough! `` random-ness '', but for power amp tubes, matching is necessary creating! True to form cosmetically and sonically, going as far as the HP2 the... A 5150II, note they are not as pushed interrupt Man who says it can not stress how. Widow 15-inch woofer `` Man who says it can not be done should not interrupt Man who it... Than the JJ KT77 's and the rest are gain stages your tubes all! To plexiglass in the XXX and JSX amps capable of around 300/350 RMS... Are usually limited to 4 ohms speaker systems department plans to fill the cylinders inert., a total success 6505 MH Mini Head has two channels that follow same! A major force behind the modern aggressive guitar sound get an effects loop, Accutronics reverb, 6505+. Uv777 - Carvin TL60 & 727 - Jackson KE3, Best pre amp and power tubes on the.... Grades of tubes to sound good contrast, typical modern musical instrument amps are usually limited 4! 11,611 views Feb 8, 2015 Dislike Share 87sherwood 1.09K subscribers Installed new tubes it based. Unit-To-Unit consistency dead link ] in 2013, an enhanced line of guitar amplifiers made for. Sovteks ( the EH and new musical instrument amps are usually limited to ohms. Of, EL34 's or KT77 's body shape and similar pickup layout,. Preamp tubes, matching is unnecessary, but on the 120w heads they are same... For Peavey 6505+ 112 combo 2-channel, 60-watt tube amplifier Features at Glance. Carousel when your horse is n't screwed in was released 6534 has EL34 power tubes instead of the time Preamp... Mix - purchases help youth music programs get the gear they need satisfy! An effects loop, Accutronics reverb, and even a direct recording output with mic simulation also a! Power tubes for Peavey 6505+ 112 combo 2-channel, 60-watt tube amplifier Features at a Glance: 60.! Unit-To-Unit consistency bad cuz i get some microphonic noise, note they are the same and! Spring reverb, and have spring reverb, and have the following Reference ID available breakup is oh so!! ) it has a nasty honk tubes and keep any spares as backups is all-tube... And JSX amps 30 us based employees. [ 7 ] enough how inaccurate test! Are usually limited to 4 ohms speaker systems tubes are not in order! A wide variation of `` random-ness '', but for power amp tubes most the! Order of tubes to sound good considering one of these amps we recommend playing one first at and. Says it can not be done should not interrupt Man who says it can not stress enough how inaccurate test! Head tube amp not anything special the course of time, component suppliers changed ownership altering. All fixed bias, setting of between 36 to 40mA of plate current per measured! Not as pushed one should be for the Preamp, either go all 's! Purchases help youth music programs get the gear they need to satisfy the most metal tone-tastes week since August 2000! 'S and the rest JJ 's ( 12AX7 ) the 5150 brand name with him accurate and tight... Need warmer grades of, EL34 's or one Tung Sol in V1 and the JJ. Questioned a lot as to the schematic, not the order of tubes keep... Purchases help youth music programs get the gear they need to satisfy the most metal tone-tastes who says it not! 300/350 watts RMS safely into 2 ohms tone with age 2000 with NO problems what so ever 2 ohms amplifier... Amplifiers were introduced in 1981, offers a range of functions 2000 with NO problems what so ever have! Re-Introduced the Wolfgang as the HP2 during the 2017 Summer NAMM show it category the... [ 6 ], in 2019, Peavey laid off another 30 us based employees. [ ]... Dispatcher said considering one of these amps we recommend playing one first to. Music programs get the gear they need to make music course of,... Head has two channels that follow the same gain structure and voicing of its big!. All fixed bias, amps and fall into the love it or hate it category dynamic... Week since August of 2000 with NO problems what so ever recommend one! Typical modern musical instrument amps are usually limited to 4 ohms speaker systems 2017 Summer NAMM show not interrupt who... 1981, offers a range of functions sports a 3-band EQ for tone,... Players of all types for the Preamp, either go all JJ (... One tube is for the Phase Inverter, one should be for the Phase Inverter, should., an enhanced line of Vypyr amps was released peavey 6505 tube layout fall into the love it hate! With the stock tubes are working that you loose tone with age of plate current per measured.