with 2 Samuel 23:34)., [14] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/2-samuel-11.html#3, Bath-sheba was the granddaughter of Ahithophel 2 Samuel 23:34., [15] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/2-samuel-12.html#1, He had no pity for the beautiful young Bathsheba whom he ordered to his bed. Both commentaries base their views on the supposition that the psalmist was still in Jerusalem at the time, whereas David found out about the Ahithophels involvement only after he had fled Jerusalem (2 Samuel 15:31). However, we can still estimate her age using the Biblical chronology. WebChapter 1: Women of Faith and Courage Chapter 2: EveFirst Woman in Creation Chapter 3: SarahWife and Mother of Patriarchs Chapter 4: LeahLoved by God Chapter 5: TamarAncestress of the Lord Jesus Christ Chapter 6: Deborah, JaelFearless for God Chapter 7: BathshebaWife and Mother of Kings Chapter 8: Mary of NazarethMother Moreover, Bathsheba was previously married to Uriah the Hittite, which means she could have been as young as 6 (or 8) when she married him. WebAfter Uriah had been killed in the siege of Rabbah (2 Samuel 11:17), Bathsheba mourned Uriah, but then David took Bathsheba into his house and made her his wife, and she He was the grandfather of Bathsheba.[69]. [51] Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi. 1 Chronicle 3:5 states that Bathsheba was the daughter of Ammiel, which scholars have explained was simply the reversed form of Eliam. By the way, can you visit my website and comment below about what you think of my articles? But the inference is really not a probable one. WebDavid in His Old Age. If we add these numbers together, we determine that Solomon was around 911 years old. So says the Benson Commentary (emphasis ours): Not half so long as men ordinarily live, and as they, by the course of nature, might have lived, and as they themselves expected to live, but shall be cut off by Gods just judgment, by an untimely and violent death.[52]. He didnt lure her. He didnt trick her. Notice that the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite and taking his wife! Bathsheba was sun baking on a roof at the time David first set eyes on her. Really it was he who met Bathsheba. Bathsheba was probably minding her Talmud Niddah 29b; Halacha is clear, ritual bath must be done during the morning hence, there is no connection with Bathsheba who took a bath during the night (2 Samuel 11:2). Despite the loss of Temple Judaism in 70 AD, Redemptive Judeo-Christianity will triumph. [68] Similarly, Smiths Bible Dictionary states that he was approximately 32 years old and died around 1023 BCE (emphasis ours): a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. 23. [80] Some others do question the identification of Bathshebas father with Eliam the son of Ahithophel but do not provide concrete evidence. Hebr. King David towers over the Old Testament, and the Son of David towers over the New. The suicide of Ahithophel, and the slaughter of Absalom with so many of his followers, furnished a striking commentary on the statement.. If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. So, either way, it seems that the name in 1 Chronicles 11:36 was a textual corruption, and thus, unreliable. I do not suffer from any misguided hope that all Christians will accept the facts presented in this article. If we read 2 Samuel 12, when Nathan the prophet came to David, he provided the parable of the rich man and the poor man as a way to trap David into confessing his sin. In the evening Uriah went out to sleep in the same place, alongside his masters servants, but he did not go down to his own home. 3 David sent someone and inquired about the woman. These include Adam Clarke,[56] Matthew Henry,[57] Joseph Caryl,[58] Henry Hammond,[59] and Griffith Williams. Thus, while some people (a, Even if we grant a new upper limit, 90 years, that does not improve the situation for embarrassed Christian apologists. He didnt go down to his own house. Psalm 55 is a prayer of David asking God to save him from his enemies. shall not half their days; that is, shall be soon cut off. The report came back: Isnt this Eliams daughter Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite? 4 So David sent messengers to take her. [76] Moreover, he did not live in the time of David but more than 100 years after him. No, this is not a tu quoque fallacy, which is defined as: an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s).[79]. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them.[104]. How could they both be alive in 1 Chronicles 27 when Ahithophel supposedly committed suicide in 2 Samuel 17? Because, I have proven that Allah is not moon god and I have proven also that that khayrul makereen is not something bad but something good and praiseworthy. Thus, it also means that he was between 4448 years old when he first encountered Bathsheba, who And the arabic word Makr is used meaning plan, not deceive. Bathsheba Survives NavPress Miranda approaches her twenty-seventh birthday determined to reinvent her life and 2 One evening, David got up from his couch and was pacing back and forth on the roof of the palace. The answer comes from Psalm 55:23 (emphasis ours): But you, God, will bring down the wicked into the pit of decay; the bloodthirsty and deceitful will not live out half their days. David asked his servants It should also be pointed out that there is no indication that Bathshebas marriage to either Uriah or David was seen as abnormal or immoral. [66] Saul also lived into his seventies. Indeed, the account in 2 Samuel 1517 shows a man who was quite active, thereby suggesting that he was not an old man. [72] Sometime after, probably 4 years (2 Samuel 15:7) after reconciling with his father David, Absalom began his rebellion. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. [45] John MacArthur, The MacArthur Bible Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, Inc., 2005), p. 636. The recorded events of Davids life after his misconduct with Bathsheba cannot have occupied less than about twenty years; that is, he cannot have been at the time older than about fifty years. Contrast Bathshebas husband Uriah to Abigails husband Nabal. Called Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5. Also already taken care of. Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. Dr. J. Vernon McGee, in a commentary he gave on Thru the Bible Radio, also identified the betrayal by Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm,[48] and so does Eastons Bible Dictionary (among many others). I reccommend you telling him to respond to this video. In fact, the ages of women are not mentioned except in a few places (e.g., the age of Sarah when she gave birth to Isaac). This view was based on the Quran, which states regarding the orphans who have not reached the marriageable age (emphasis ours): And do not give the weak-minded your property, which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness. However, this does not fit well due to the contradiction between Sauls age at the time of his death and Davids prophecy in Psalm 55:23. That Ahithophel had then a married grand-daughter is less probable than that there were in Israel two Eliams.[81]. Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm). There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. [48] http://blb-ra.blueletterbible.org/mcgee_j_vernon/Psa/19134_Psalm_55_1-5.mp3 (mark 1:45). Rather, by the onset of puberty, they were adults and were treated as such. It only criticizes the explanation of Ahithophels possible motive for helping Absalom (i.e., revenge for Davids sinful act with Bathsheba and the murder of Uriah the Hittite). The son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34). [68] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. Part of the reason for some Christians denial about child marriage in the Bible is that the Bible does not mention any specific age at which marriage could occur. Michal (/mxl/; Hebrew: [mial], Greek: ) was, according to the first Book of Samuel, a princess of the United Kingdom of Israel; the younger daughter of King Saul, she was the first wife of David (1 Samuel 18:2027), who later became king, first of Judah, then of Israel. Christians should try to be consistent. Not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon. According to the chronology of 2 Samuel 1315, two years had passed since Amnon had raped his half-sister Tamar (Absaloms sister),[70] when after killing Amnon, Absalom fled to Geshur, where he lived for 3 years. . Bathsheba would have been between 16 and 19, because she was doing the ritual bath outlined in Leviticus 15::19-30 for women who have their period already (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15%3A19-30&version=NIV). Practically, I have helped the authors of DTT website and after I have done that, Im gonna deal with websites like wikiIslam and answering islam. 34,) was one of Davids valiant men, [92] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3, Eliam. And one said, Is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite? So David sent messengers and took her, and she came to him, and he lay with her. Based on the example of Barzillai, 80 years seems to have been the upper limit of life in Davids time. It was during Davids years as a fugitive from Saul that he met a lovely woman named Abigail. Figure 1: Map showing how far Ahithophel would have travelled in the short-lived coup attempt by Absalom. The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges concurs: Much of the Psalm is sufficiently appropriate to Davids circumstances to account for its having been regarded as an expression of his feelings at that bitter crisis: but a closer examination makes it difficult, if not impossible, to suppose that it was actually written by him. Are these prayers also meant to be interpreted allegorically? Bullinger,[35] Thomas Cooke,[36] the Benson Commentary,[37] Clarkes Commentary,[38] John Trapp,[39] the Pulpit Commentary,[40] Hawkers Poor Mans Commentary,[41] the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary,[42] Keil and Delitzsch Old Testament Commentary,[43] the Lange Commentary on the Holy Scriptures,[44] the MacArthur Bible Commentary,[45] Wesleys Explanatory Notes,[46] and Whedons Commentary on the Bible,[47] also identify Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm. Nathans rebuke places the entire blame on David, and not on Bathsheba. Bathsheba was described as having Thus, Solomon was 911 years old at the time of his great-grandfathers death. As far as I am aware, this evidence has not been discussed before in Muslim-Christian debates, so it is completely new (though it is not a new discovery). Ahithophel was succeeded by Jehoiada son of Benaiah and by Abiathar.. Web28 Then King David answered, Call Bathsheba to me. So she came into the king's presence and stood before the king. Rather, my argument is that there was nothing Biblically wrong or immoral about Muhammads marriage to Aisha and that it was common practice in virtually all cultures for people to marry young (usually by the onset of puberty). He could have been as old as 11 years if we assume that the four years in 2 Samuel 15:7 refers to the time from Absaloms return from Geshur (2+3+2+4=11). Interestingly, the inspired text states that Ahithophels advice to Absalom was good but that Absalom instead chose to follow the bad advice of Hushai the Arkite (2 Samuel 17:14), who was in fact a double-agent sent by David. The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the See the same link to the playlist. Six times in one paragraph (vv. David being the father of Solomon took the throne at age 30. And also, I wanna say that I bave wxplained that khayrul makereen does not in no way means best of deceivers and I have explained that Khayrul Makereen means something honorable and something good. Credit Line: Bequest of Benjamin Altman, 1913. Second point, Talmud Sanhedrin 107a says she was shampooing her hair thus, negating the fact she was taking a ritual bath, as mentioned in Talmud Eruvin 4b the whole body must be in water not hair. This cannot refer to Absalom. 11-18), God says of the future Israelite kings, he will take.. Was it not inspired? [a]ll the expressions used in this verse would probably be applicable to Ahithophel, and to the intimacy between him and David., This was also the conclusion of the classical Jewish sources, such as the Targums and the Talmud, as explained in, But it was thou,. 1055-1023.) According to the decree of God, he might have lived the other half; but he has not done it., [57] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/psalms/55.htm, They are bloody and deceitful men (that is, the worst of men) and therefore shall not live out half their days, not half so long as men ordinarily live, and as they might have lived in a course of nature, and as they themselves expected to live. (2 Samuel 11:24) David didnt invite Bathsheba. In what two situations was Bathsheba caught, and how did she respond in each? David was sinful because he had taken another mans wife, not that he had slept with a 7-year old. The evidence in question comes from the infamous marriage of David and Bathsheba. What did Davids actions cost Bathsheba? A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. It is not known how old David was when he met Bathsheba. Son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, and one of Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel 23:34 ). Why is it assumed that a 3040 years old Ahithophel could not have a granddaughter? [13] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, He probably hoped to wield a greater sway under the vain prince than he had done under David, against whom it is also possible that he entertained a secret malice on account of his granddaughter Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3, comp. Im not a non-Muslim. 21. At the time of Absaloms revolt he deserted David (Psalms 41:9 ; 55:12-14). From the roof he saw a woman bathing; the woman was very beautiful. WebEven so, the next king of Israel, Solomon, was later born to David and Bathsheba (12:24). [5] Thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather. Died at 70 years of age. Artist: Rembrandt (Rembrandt van Rijn) (Dutch, Leiden 16061669 Amsterdam) Date: 1643. In this article. This would be based on physical and social maturity. The Bible simply doesnt say. Its a relevant to the narrative in the Bible, keep in mind is a directed history. It is not a 100% record but rather If David was a sinner who had slept with a 7-year old, how could God describe him as a man after my own heart? A girls period can start at different ages, so thats not a good argument. [100] Perhaps most controversial is his refusal to assign a particular age to serve as a cutoff. This elite group also included Uriah the Hittite (v. 39). He identified Ahithophel in the commentary on verse 12: Ahithophels perfidy and villany troubled David more than all the rest., [40] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/psalms/55.htm, the general sentiment of commentators has always been that Ahithophel is intended. 22. He never kept time or season with God, and surely God will not keep or regard his time or season., In the Jewish account threescore years was the age of a man, and death at any time before that was looked upon as untimely, The more sins we do commit, the more we hasten our own death; because as the wise man saith, The fear of the Lord prolongeth days, but the years of the wicked shall be shortened (Pro 10:27); and the prophet David saith, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days; for sin is an epitomiser or shortener of everything: it consumes our wealth, it confines our liberty, it impeaches our health, and it abbreviates our life, and brings us speedily unto our grave., [61] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#23, But shall be cut off by an untimely and violent death., David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years., Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty-two years.. There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. Bath-sheba was the granddaughter of Ahithophel 2 Samuel 23:34., [90] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, [91] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, By a transposition of letters, he is called Ammiel, in 1 Paralipomenon iii. The Targum is, but thou Ahithophel; of whom the words are literally to be understood, and so they are in the Talmud (u); and mystically and typically of Judas. as Bathsheba was described as having met King David after stepping out of the bath. Therefore, Christians now have the problem of having to find excuses to justify Davids sexual intercourse with Bathsheba and Yahwehs approval of it. As stated above, Saul was in his 70s when he died. Absalom calculated on his adhesion from the first (2 Samuel 15:12); the history does not directly say why, but incidentally it comes out: he was father of Eliam (or by transposition Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5), the father of Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3; 2 Samuel 23:34; 2 Samuel 23:39)., [9] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, He may have been the grandfather of Bathsheba, Davids partner in sin and wife, [10] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/a/ahithophel.html, Being Bathshebas grandfather, he had been alienated by Davids criminal conduct, [11] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/a/ahithophel-.html, A Gilonite, grandfather of Bathsheba, and a very wise counsellor of David, [12] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/rpd/a/ahithophel.html, Some have endeavored to account for Ahithophels treason by the supposition that, as it seems likely he was Bath-shebas grandfather, he wished to revenge on David the evil done to her. And Uriahs death was no accident; it was murder in the first degree. 54, or of Davids being shut up in Keilah in the time of Saul (1 Sam. 5 The woman conceived and sent word to David. Before we begin, let us see what the Jewish scholars said about Bathshebas age when she gave birth to Solomon (dont worry, this is not the main evidence). 25:3). The reason for this was: [f]or the Lord had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom.. WebAPI Access. [1] In this follow-up article, I will present powerful evidence that will silence the rabid Christians who criticize Muhammads marriage to Aisha, inshaAllah. Heb. Hebraicae, in loco), the father of Bath-sheba. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. Eliam. Cmon bro, dont get me wrong. Dimensions: 22 1/2 x 30 in. In this section, I will try to pre-empt some possible Christian objections. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, she was between 911 years old, with 11 being the conservative estimate based on the conservative estimate for Solomons age (9 years). Or examples of sex slaves in the Bible (I remember Hagar and Jacobs slaves were used for sex to have babies). another great academic article. How[c] could I go home and eat, drink, and have sex with my wife? Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. The reason is given in the genealogical tables, which show that he was the grandfather of Bathsheba, and that his son Eliam was the comrade and friend of Uriah., [27] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tpc/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel, the grandfather of Bathsheba (2 Samuel 15:12; 2 Samuel:3), [29] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/psalms/55.htm, [30] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-13.htm, [31] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/poole/psalms/55.htm, that person who was the chief contriver and promoter of this rebellion under Absalom, even to Ahithophel, of whom he spoke [in] Psalm 55:13; and though he doth not excuse the rest, as we have seen, yet he lays the chief blame upon him, and here he adds new aggravations of his treason.. Being the father of Solomon took the throne at age 30 92 ] https: //www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11 lang=bi... Did not live in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon the example of Barzillai 80! Were used for sex to have been the upper limit of life in Davids.... Age 30 I will try to pre-empt some possible Christian objections directed history have babies ) form of,..... was it not inspired prayers also meant to be interpreted allegorically succeeded Jehoiada... Also meant to be interpreted allegorically by Abiathar.. Web28 then king David towers over the Testament. Is less probable than that there were in Israel two Eliams. [ 81 ] met lovely... To assign a particular age to serve as a fugitive from Saul he... A cutoff David, and the son of Ahithophel but do not provide concrete evidence suicide in 2 Samuel )... It assumed that a 3040 years old at the time of his followers furnished... Saul was in killing Uriah the Hittite them sound judgement, release their property to them. 104. Nathans rebuke places the entire blame on David, and she came to him, and one of heroes... Attempt by Absalom in Keilah in the time of Saul ( 1 Sam Keilah in the time of (. So thats not a probable one was 911 years old respond in?. 48 ] http: //blb-ra.blueletterbible.org/mcgee_j_vernon/Psa/19134_Psalm_55_1-5.mp3 ( mark 1:45 ) Temple Judaism in 70 AD, Judeo-Christianity., not that he met Bathsheba a prayer of David but more than 100 years him. They both be alive in 1 Chronicles 11:36 was a textual corruption and. Messengers and took her, and the slaughter of Absalom with so many of his death!, we determine that Solomon was 911 years old Ahithophel could not have a granddaughter his great-grandfathers death in. Determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well came to him, and lay... ] http: //blb-ra.blueletterbible.org/mcgee_j_vernon/Psa/19134_Psalm_55_1-5.mp3 ( mark 1:45 ) 55 is a directed history, then determining his approximate would! 45 ] John MacArthur, the wife of Uriah the Hittite 1 Sam the. The father of Bath-sheba daughter Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite and taking his!! 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